[12:05] WarrenAdler Aeon: Welcome we're here to talk about the short story. The short story has gotten a bad rap during the past few years and many outlets for this medium have closed.
[12:06] Jeffronius Batra: Ok, welcome everyone. Today we are welcoming author Warren Adler to Second Life and to the Amazon Developer Islands. We are really excited to have him here and are looking forward to hearing what he has to say over the course of this event series.
[12:07] Jeffronius Batra: Please join the group "Warren Adler Fans" to receive notification of future events.
[12:07] Jeffronius Batra: And now, Warren, over to you....
[12:08] Istvan Barnes: hey, pretty cool meeting
[12:08] WarrenAdler Aeon: my fifth collection of short stories New York Echoes illustrates the thesis that the short story is one of the best mediums in fiction. Most writers started their carees by writing short stories. Have any of you written short stories?
[12:09] Nat Mandelbrot: I would like to, but I am having trouble getting started!
[12:09] Jeffronius Batra: I haven't written any for a long time. They are definitely an art form.
[12:10] Jeffronius Batra: I've never written a novel but it seems to me that short, self-contained stories require a lot of discipline.
[12:10] Troy McLuhan: I like to read them :)
[12:13] Troy McLuhan: Oops it seems he crashed?
[12:13] Jeffronius Batra: Standby, we are running this event from multiple locations (Seattle and NYC). NYC may have an issue...
[12:13] Nat Mandelbrot: One second everyone
[12:14] Jeffronius Batra: Ok we are back!
[12:17] WarrenAdler Aeon: sorry we were disconeected. I was saying thatin my first story "Good Neighbors" a woman who lives in a large apartment house in New York decides to bond with her neighbors, something that is rarely done in New York city. Does anyone out there live in Manhattan?
[12:17] Troy McLuhan: I'm in suburban Ontario
[12:17] WarrenAdler Aeon: Where do the rest of you live?
[12:18] Daisyblue Hefferman: w. NY
[12:18] Ludo Merit: NC
[12:18] Daisyblue Hefferman: so I'm familiar with NYC culture and habits
[12:18] Nat Mandelbrot: Brooklyn!
[12:18] Nat Mandelbrot: I find it hard sometimes to make true friends with my neighbors in New York.
[12:18] Labsji Link: Chennai, India.
[12:20] Jeffronius Batra: Seattle...
[12:22] Labsji Link: Definitely not like SineField. In NYC AFAIK, and not in Chennai too.
[12:22] WarrenAdler Aeon: Thanks. In New York city people live in comparltments and fear getting too intimate. In my story the woman is from a small town where people like to meet each other and socialize. The husband of this woman is wary and warns her not to get too intimate. She does anyway and finds herself deeply involved in the lives of her neighbor, a lot more than she bargained for. Now we have set up the conditions for the short story, meaning in this case, a beginning. So the proposition begins and the woman gets invovled. She takes out a neighbors dog. She meet another neighbor who is breaking up with his girlfriend and still another neighbor and still another neighbor who invites them as a fill in for a dinner party.
[12:23] Nat Mandelbrot: Hmmm. i always want to ask my neighbors to feed my cat, or do favors for me, but I feel like it crosses the line in New York.
[12:23] WarrenAdler Aeon: OIkay then that is the middle of the story. But now we must find a way to bnring these events to the end.. The climax.. Does anyone have a clue to how this will end?
[12:23] Jeffronius Batra: Interesting, I would always ask my neighbors for stuff like that.
[12:24] WarrenAdler Aeon: Do you think this story will end in a happy way for this woman?
[12:24] Troy McLuhan: Maybe she realizes she doesn't like any of the neighbors and thereafer leaves them alone
[12:24] Daisyblue Hefferman: most likely not.
[12:25] Nat Mandelbrot: I hope it is happy... i have read too many sad stories recently.
[12:25] Labsji Link: She finds that beneath the sophistry of NYC, everyone is social.
[12:25] Ludo Merit: So far, I don't see the problem.
[12:25] Ludo Merit: There has to be a problem or no story.
[12:25] Labsji Link: Given the opportunity, they become more closer than the small town.
[12:26] Troy McLuhan: There is already a problem - she's broken the rules
[12:26] WarrenAdler Aeon: That would not make much a dramatic story. Oh yes, I forgot that this woman is being badgered by her husand not to get involved. Now thew strory has a number of conflicts.
[12:26] Susi Nishi: thats what rules are for :)
[12:26] Daisyblue Hefferman: he husband meets a woman at the dinner party and leaves her
[12:27] Labsji Link: LOL
[12:27] Nat Mandelbrot: Ooo, yes intrigue and deception
[12:27] WarrenAdler Aeon: There are no real rules. The woman believes that other people are like her, friendly, open, small townish, nice.
[12:28] WarrenAdler Aeon: Do you think she is naive to believe that?
[12:28] Ludo Merit: I know I get into trouble believing that others are like me.
[12:28] Nat Mandelbrot: I often do as well.
[12:29] Daisyblue Hefferman: not necessarily, as that's how it is most everywhere
[12:31] WarrenAdler Aeon: Exactly. There is no way of knowing but the woman takes risks based on her life experiences. In this story she discovers that people are involved in their own conlicts, are needy . She has reached into other lives who were not open to her and in this case, she is discouraged. That is the story's climax, the awareness that in this case it was not a great idea. |
[12:31] Daisyblue Hefferman: so she's lost her innocence, but does she give up trying?
[12:33] Jeffronius Batra: I'm with Nat and Ludo, sometimes it is too easy to think that everyone else comes from a similar background or has the same depth of thought that you do.
[12:33] WarrenAdler Aeon: So it shows a beginning, a middle and an end. This is the way one should approach a short strory. Now lets get to how I got the idea for this short story. I lived in a highrise in Manhattan and my wife loves to talk with people in the elevator of our 30 story building.That is the way ideas and life's experiences join forces to create an idea. Do any of you have ideas for stories that come to you this way?
[12:34] Jeffronius Batra: Yeah, I often write little stories (in my head) about the people in the checkout line at Whole Foods. If they only knew....
[12:34] Daisyblue Hefferman: lol
[12:34] Nat Mandelbrot: Labsji, what do you think?
[12:35] Labsji Link: All art, creative output is reflection of self?
[12:35] WarrenAdler Aeon: Why should they know. Everyone is a story.Any other folks out there who discover stories in speaking or observing other people?
[12:35] Jeffronius Batra: How do you know if a short story is going to "work"? Is there an objective test that you apply to your creative work to be sure that it will fit together?
[12:35] Nat Mandelbrot: I think it is a reflection of yourself and the environmnet you are in
[12:36] Nat Mandelbrot: when you look in the mirror, you also see the romm behind you :)
[12:37] WarrenAdler Aeon: I don't know if there is an objectiive test. The reader must be the judge. Does it involve him or her? Does the reader bond with the characters and the situation. If you get too analytical on what "works" you begin to second guess the reader and that often results in fear of failure.
[12:38] Labsji Link: I see there is a lot of parallel between story writing and Startups.
[12:38] Ludo Merit: ?
[12:38] Labsji Link: Just do it and leave it to the readers.
[12:39] Labsji Link: If it is good, it will be appreciated.
[12:39] Troy McLuhan: That's an interesting parallel - between story writing and Startups
[12:39] WarrenAdler Aeon: That is a brilliant comment. You sure got it Labsji.
[12:39] Labsji Link: When it is appreciated you will sure know.
[12:39] Ludo Merit: Startups?
[12:39] Troy McLuhan: New businesses
[12:40] Jeffronius Batra: So there's a tension between being "customer centric" and second-guessing the reader then?
[12:40] Nat Mandelbrot: I think startups are like rock bands.
[12:40] Troy McLuhan: Well, in a way, rock bands are just one kind of startup - if they intend to make any money doing it
[12:41] WarrenAdler Aeon: I think our friend means that there is no way of knowing when a startup succeeds.Same with a story. One writes a story and never knows how it will be received. Yes.Like Rock Bands.
[12:44] WarrenAdler Aeon: Heres another story in my collection. A young woman reluctantly takes her grandfather to his old neighborhood in Brooklyn that has deteriorated. He sees the house where he was lived fifty years before. It is totally changed except for the three fruit trees in the yard which is still blooming. The man is emotionally charged and attempts to pick a fruit from one of the trees and is chased off the property and threatened by the new owner.Can you see the three elements of the story,beginning, middle and end?
[12:45] Daisyblue Hefferman: another slice of NYC. most other places, he'd have been invited in.
[12:45] Nat Mandelbrot: You are all invited to steal fruit from my tree in Brooklyn.
[12:46] Daisyblue Hefferman: do you spray, Nat? :)
[12:46] Nat Mandelbrot: Seriously though, this reminds me of visits I taked with my father
[12:46] Nat Mandelbrot: I take with my father, back to the house he grew up in
[12:46] Nat Mandelbrot: We no longer own it, but we often pick fruit from his father's arbors...or what is left of them.
[12:47] WarrenAdler Aeon: You must be a small town lady. It rarely happens that way in New York. I forgot to say that there is a racial element in the story. The neighborhood is now crime ridden and athe poeple who live there are fearful. Do you now have another view?
[12:47] Daisyblue Hefferman: oh, sure. with the new details.
[12:48] Labsji Link: Assumed dangerous unless proven otherwise. And no time to investigate the innocent moves.
[12:48] Jeffronius Batra: That does, unfortunately, seem to make a difference.
[12:48] WarrenAdler Aeon: Note that I am illustrating that short stories should have as many elements of logical conflict as possible.
[12:49] Troy McLuhan: So avoid illogical conflict?
[12:49] Nat Mandelbrot: Or deus ex machina
[12:49] Nat Mandelbrot: to resolve those illogical conflicts?
[12:50] Fernanda Qin: can you say more about logical conflict?
[12:50] WarrenAdler Aeon: Absolutely. All conflict must be believable and logical. Motivation must be extremely logical and understrandable to the reader.
[12:51] Labsji Link: Build a context, create a logical knot. And end with one possible 'Interesting' ending that unties the knot but not fully.
[12:51] Labsji Link: Interesting.
[12:51] WarrenAdler Aeon: By logical conflict, I mean believable. You must make the characters so believable that the reader can truly understand who he or she actrs the way she or he does.
[12:52] Daisyblue Hefferman: TY so much, but I have a meeting I must attend. This has been nelightening and enjoyable. Please come back.
[12:52] Labsji Link: Believable = easy to relate?
[12:53] Susi Nishi: I think he means consistent Labsji
[12:53] Jeffronius Batra: By the way, everyone, we have a series of events planned with Warren through February and March. Join the Warren Adler Fans group for notification.
[12:53] WarrenAdler Aeon: I will be back next Thursday same time, same station, but I will remain here for a bit. I have one more story to tell you about and this involves the terrible annoyance and intrusion of cell phones. Would you like to hear a quick plot?
[12:53] Ludo Merit: Please
[12:53] Jeffronius Batra: Sure!
[12:54] Troy McLuhan: Yes
[12:54] Fernanda Qin: sure
[12:54] WarrenAdler Aeon: In this last story a nice older woman sits on her favorite bench in central park reading a novel;.
[12:58] Jeffronius Batra: One note to participants -- can you IM me your "OK to publish" if you have contributed to the chat?
[12:58] WarrenAdler Aeon: Another woman sits next to her and beging to annoy her by using her cellphone to change the venue of a fancy party she is having.She is particular loud and annoying and after awhile this nice lady asks her to please lower her voice. She tells her to go away.and continues to bew loud and obstrreperous.The nice lade is motified by her behavior. After she changes the venue of the party to another restaurant she says something nast and leaves. The mild mannered nice lady who has never hurt anyone in her life and has overheard the woman, calls the new venue and cancels the womans' new party. What do you think?
[12:58] Jeffronius Batra: Revenge is sweet and I think that the woman got what was coming to her.
[12:59] Ludo Merit: I want to know what happens next.
[12:59] Labsji Link: Ok to publish.
[12:59] WarrenAdler Aeon: This story has been read by Cynthia Nixon and can be gotten free this wek on it-tunes. She was wonderful.
[13:00] WarrenAdler Aeon: Or next week we can play it here.
[13:01] Jeffronius Batra: We (Amazon and Cruxy, your hosts) will try to get the audio to you within SL.
[13:02] WarrenAdler Aeon: So long and would love to see you next week. How about some of you coming up with story ideas for next week and I'll tell you how to fashion them.
[13:02] Jeffronius Batra: Warren, thanks for this great event. We will look forward to seeing you all here next week.
[13:03] Ludo Merit: Great!
[13:03] Jeffronius Batra: Excellent idea.
[13:03] Jeffronius Batra: I need "ok to publish" from most of you so that I can put out the chat.
[13:03] WarrenAdler Aeon: See you all again.
[13:04] Fernanda Qin: ok to publish
[13:04] Ludo Merit: ok to publish
[13:04] Labsji Link: See you Warren Alder. It was very stimulating and interesting discussion.
[13:04] Fernanda Qin: thanks for holding this event. bye
[13:04] Jeffronius Batra: Great, thanks for coming everyone. This was Warren's first time in SL and I think he did great.